Matt: What’s going on guys? This is Matt and Greg with Project Unbroken. We are trying to raise awareness about addiction and we talk about some of the things that Greg and I have experienced through our heroin addiction, and things that have helped us kind of come out on the other side more successful and more happy than we really thought we could be.
Matt: Today we wanted to talk about Suboxone, cure or curse. We’ve had a couple of conversations about Suboxone, and mainly my benefit with Suboxone, Greg took the Mephedrone in his recovery journey, and we get a lot of mixed feedback.
Greg: Yeah, we do.
Matt: Some people love it, some people hate it. Some people say it ruined their life. Some people say that it saved their life. And we want to talk about some of those different opinions, and again what we think the main perceptions are about Suboxone and how you could be successful with it.
Greg: Yeah, so first, there’s a lot of people I think that we get feedback from that they get down to 2 mg or so, then they’re stuck. They’re like fuck, it’s the same thing as being on heroin. I’m just stuck on it, I can’t get off. And I think in that sense, for those people, if you look at it in a different way, I think it’s addicts, like being on heroin, being on pills, Methadone and Suboxone that we’re so used to always being comfortable, that we’re a little bit of uncomfortable, how do you say? Uncomfortability. When you feel uncomfortable a little bit it kind of freaks us out. And I remember going through that, and it wasn’t until I was like, “All right, you know, fuck, I just got to go through it.”
Greg: I prepared myself to start being uncomfortable a little bit, and it really wasn’t that bad for me. I came of Methadone, heroin, Suboxone. I know you kind of did the same things, we talked about this. So first of all, for those of you out there who gets stuck on it, kind of realize you going to have to be uncomfortable a little bit, it doesn’t last that long. And you can really minimize how uncomfortable you are by coming down very slow. Matt has a video on how he came off Suboxone, we’ll put below up for those people, that’s one of the biggest topics I guess, so I want to bring that up.
Greg: But cure or curse, I think it’s whatever you make it out to be, for most people. Now, for some people I think it can be a curse because people’s bodies just react differently to different substances. Some people Suboxone’s just going to be no good. Now I’ve had people telling me that Suboxone was way worse for them than Methadone, but for most people it’s the other way around. So obviously there is different reactions to the drug, but I think for the most part, for me I would say cure. As long as your mind is in the right place.
Matt: Yeah. Well, and to Greg’s point I think that makes a lot of sense. It’s like that old phrase, whatever it is, whether you think you’re wrong, or whether you think you’re right, you know. It’s completely how you frame the whole situation. We had a comment on a video, I believe it was yesterday or the day before from this guy who was saying that he was thankful to hear that coming off Suboxone didn’t have to be as scary as a lot of people say that it is. He mentioned that he’s been on Suboxone for 10 years.
Matt: So I wrote back, maybe because he just had a lot of anxiety. So it’s like I got to come off now, and I’m freaking the fuck out. And I wrote back, I replied to his comment, I said, “Dude, if you’re trying to think about coming off of something you’ve been on for 10 years, that’s like breaking up with somebody that’s your life has revolved around for a decade. It’s going to be really nerve wrecking to try to think about your life without this crutch, or without this what you think was helping you along.” And we talk about placebo and all that stuff. Once you’re 10 years on anything, there’s going to be a pretty dramatic shift when that has to go away. And the way you have to frame that out in your mind is exactly what Greg was saying. You have to kind of look at this uncomfortable situation and this is going to be one of the first of many unfortunately. But this is going to be one of the first of many times that you are going to have to face that uncomfortable feeling. And I think that you’ll realize it’s not that bad.
Matt: And something that Greg and I both talk about a lot now is we are very comfortable being in uncomfortable situations, whether that’s mentally, physically. I think we almost thrive in those circumstances now. Where it’s like, this is really going to suck, let me dive into it and not brace myself for impact. But just to open it up and just let it happen, feel it. And that will just make you so much stronger in so many different ways. That’s where you build just that, like strong mental attitude. It’s when you’re like, let me just see how bad this is. And you’ll see there’s not much there.
Greg: It’s a good point. When I was coming Methadone and heroin, I wasn’t exactly fun. I couldn’t sleep, nothing there too terribl. But I think I learned later on that going through that made me so much happier overall. I think once I realized that they’re going through a struggle made me stronger. I started looking for struggle. That’s why today I do Crossfit, I do jiu jitsu, I want to get into MMA, I try to build businesses. I do things that challenge me because I realize coming off one of many things, coming off heroin and Mephedrone told me was, when you get through a struggle, when you’re going through it, it makes you better in Yen. And that’s a true statement. It sounds like so stupid, like we never done that, you don’t realize yeah, whatever. You know what I mean.
Matt: Okay yeah.
Greg: That’s bullshit. But when you go through it you kind of feel the effects of it. You’re like, “Oh, now that I realize that I started looking for that because I realize how much better it makes you feel overall.
Matt: It’s huge. I put a post out yesterday on my Instagram, and I was talking about overcoming weakness. And it’s literally become one of my favorite things to do was where I find a weakness in my character, or for us in a gym, whatever it is. And I’m like, “Oh my God, I get to suffer through this, and I know it’s going to make me better on the other side.” It’s so crazy, because once you find that, you realize that the pain is never that bad, or that feeling of being uncomfortable is never that bad. And it ends up being something that you seek out. And instead of, I think growing up or through my teenage years, and early 20’s even.
Matt: I used to always really avoid any conflict, any difficult situations. I would avoid it, and avoid it, because I used to think that seeking comfort would be whatever. Would make me happy. And really all that it did was just it made me push all these things to the side that I needed to address. And I just want to address them now, I just look at the stuff head-on, and you just fix it, and you feel better, I don’t know.
Matt: Then I learned all that through just that slight uncomfortable feeling of getting off of Suboxone.
Greg: Yeah, for those of you maybe who Suboxone’s been a curse for, maybe try and look at it at a little different perspective. Look at it a little different way. Be prepared to be a little bit uncomfortable coming off it. There is some people I think that it is a curse for, where it just doesn’t react well on their body. We had a comment the other day, and this women was like, “Is it normal that I’m taking 8 mg and it’s not taking away any withdrawal symptoms. I take eight more, and there, that’s not normal, we don’t hear that much.
Greg: Maybe Suboxone isn’t for you if that’s the case. That’s the only case I’ve ever heard of is that women commenting on stuff that’s not done something for someone. So in her case it’s probably just not for her. It doesn’t mix well with her system. But I think for a lot of people, when used correctly, and you had the right mindset, I think it’s a [cure. They can do really good things, and I saw that through you.
Matt: Yeah, yeah.
Greg: Another way it could be a curse is the way I used it for a while. Where I would just use it to not withdraw. So, when I couldn’t get dope, I’ll have my Suboxone on the side. I’ll take a little Suboxone for the day as I couldn’t get the dope. It’ll just keep my addiction a while longer.
Matt: Hold you off.
Greg: Yeah, so it can be a curse in that way as well. But when used correctly with the right mindset, I think it’s a cure. But, anything can go either way, right?
Greg: We can be bad in ways, but we can be really good in ways where it has medical benefits and the [inaudible 00:08:52]. So there’s always a good and a bad to a lot of things.
Matt: It’s a 100% how you structure it. I mean, and to that point that you’re saying where you’re just … And this is not uncommon. People use Suboxone again, just to keep them from being sick, and they can find more dope, and then it’s whatever. It’s almost like a get out of jail free card. You don’t want to use it like that. When Greg and I referenced Suboxone or Mephedrone or any maintenance program, it’s assuming that the person taking it is taking it with best attentions to work their way out of it. You can abuse literally anything. Again, just depending on your mindset with it, your mindset with coming out of this addiction. Or you’re just trying to use it as a stepping stone to when you can get more dope.
Matt: If you’re doing that, you’d be better off withdrawing and feeling the pain of not having heroin, because, I mean, that was probably the main motivator for us quitting. We’re like man, “This sucks.” If we always had Suboxone, that might not have happened.
Greg: Yeah, so cure or curse for me. Overall I would say cure. A little bit of curse in there for some people. But not me, I think overall cure for me, and really, I’m just speaking from experience. I saw Matt use it as a cure. It could have worked for me as a cure if I had my mind right. Once my mind was right, I use Mephedrone as a cure. So I think that could be a cure as well. It’s a really different topic, but overall for me I’d say cure.
Matt: Yeah, yeah. Same with me. It did cure me. So I have to stick up for Suboxone a little bit on this one.
Greg: Make sure you check out Matt’s story. I think it’s like a 15 minute interview between me and you, and we go over this full-time mind of … I think it’s about a year and a half it took you to get off it. He slowly came off it, and that’s the thing you got to do. You got to slowly come off it, you got to be patient that way around, because with you coming off you said you didn’t withdraw at all pretty much. Little bit of anxiety at the end.
Matt: A little bit yeah.
Greg: But it’s possible to get off Suboxone with little or no withdrawal as long as you’re doing it correctly.
Matt: Yeah, just be smart about it. Have a game plan. Again, in all of our videos we talk about how to structure that. You can go back and check those out. Have a support system, you know, hopefully you’re getting your Suboxone through a reputable doctor or physician, whatever. You should be able to set up a game plan where you guys can both schedule out how you want to work your way out of it. It doesn’t have to be a nightmare. You should have an exit strategy and you’ll be fine.
Greg: Cool, so hope you all enjoyed this video on Suboxone, cure or curse. Make sure you subscribe below. We got plenty more videos coming out, and we’ll be covering lots of health topics coming up as well. So subscribe below and we’ll see you all soon.
Matt: See you guys.