Matt: What’s going on guys? Matt and Greg here with Project Unbroken. Do us a favor, hit that subscribe button and share this video.
Matt: Today we’re talk about Greg’s full timeline, how we got on heroin and how he got off with the use of methadone. So we’re start at the beginning.
- 1 How Did You Get Into Heroin Addiction?
- 2 Any Heroin Withdrawal Symptoms?
- 3 Prescription Pain Kills Seem More Innocent Than Heroin…
- 4 The Start Of Heroin Use
- 5 When Did You Start Using Methadone?
- 6 What Does Methadone Feel Like?
- 7 One Of The First Steps To Getting Off Heroin…
How Did You Get Into Heroin Addiction?
Matt: How did this all … How did you get into this thing?
Greg: Oh, man. Well I started … I was about 18, and I believe we were living in Philly at the time, and just recreationally was smoking weed and drinking of course. And recreationally had a friend come and he had something called oxycodone, and I wasn’t very aware of what it was.
Greg: Just I was 18 years old, I was in the experimental phase, and he had an 80 milligram oxy, he cut it in fours, and four of us took 20 milligrams, and that’s kind of the first place it started, and I loved it.
Greg: The first time I did it, I was lying there, I was like “Holy shit,” my body felt so good. And from there, I didn’t do it that often, I would say maybe every couple of weeks I would try [inaudible 00:01:01], “Man I want to do that again, I want to try it again.”
Greg: I was never worried about getting addicted to it, but eventually over time it sped up and more and more I was doing it. Once a week, couple of times a week, and it started to be a problem.
Any Heroin Withdrawal Symptoms?
Matt: Did you ever notice any symptoms of withdraw? So over those first couple months of experimental use, did you see any downsides, or were you ever worried it’s becoming a problem?
Greg: Nah. Definitely not the first couple months.
Greg: And even like a year or two in, I wasn’t that worried. There was never really withdraw that I noticed, it was more if I didn’t have it, I may have been a little down or not as motivated or just maybe not feeling myself.
Greg: But never like the normal withdraw most of us know, which is like throwing up, shitting yourself. Restless legs, anxiety, depression. Depression was there, but none of the major, major symptoms were there.
Matt: So the pill use, was that more like a social thing?
Greg: Yeah it was social, and also I have … my personality is very laid back.
Greg: I like watching movies and kind of chilling. So for me it was like my demon. I know you never liked it as much as I did. I was always much more of an addict with the opiates because it fits my personality.
Greg: No, I’ve always said the more you like something, the more likely you are to be addicted to it, and I know I was doing twice as much as you when we were using, ’cause it fits my personality so well.
Matt: Yeah absolutely.
Matt: So, phase two, when did you start picking up with pill use? Maybe when did it start kicking in like you were using at work, or not in just relaxing sense?
Greg: I don’t remember the exact timeline, but I just remember it led into it by finding more people that did it, and being able to find more connections, and being able to get it easier. The easier it is to get, the more I did it, and it just kind of picked up that way.
Matt: And then, how long until heroin came into the picture?
Greg: I would say it was about two to three years.
Greg: And it was a night … Again, I was looking for pills that night. It was at two, three times a week at that point. Again, where I wasn’t experiencing withdrawal when I didn’t have it, but I wasn’t feeling great. And there was a night where I was looking to go out and have fun. I had been drinking. And I was with someone, and they brought out some heroin.
Greg: I was like, “Eh. I don’t know about that,” and they were like, “Just do half a bag. It the same thing.” So I did half a bag thinking, “I’ll just do it this once and I’ll go back to the pills,” and that’s where everything changed.
Matt: Okay. And then, how long did that go on for? The heroin use. Did it switch over pretty immediately, like were you done with pills at that point?
Greg: Not immediate switch, but pretty quick overall. It wasn’t like the next day I was on heroin every day, but pretty quickly, I would say within a month or two, I was on heroin pretty much every day. And the pills were no more.
Greg: So it’s like, I fought it for a month or two. Tried to fight it, and then it just picked up.
Prescription Pain Kills Seem More Innocent Than Heroin…
Matt: Well, we’ve talked about this before. I think there’s this almost even after you’ve done heroin, you’ve done pills, there’s still this idea that pills are better or cleaner or not as bad.
Greg: Because they’re described by doctors and they’re human made, where as heroin’s almost considered dirty.
The Start Of Heroin Use
Matt: Yeah. So, throughout the course … Heroin use, do you remember at any point or when you started to realize, “Alright, this is making my life a little bit more difficult,” or, “Things are becoming unmanageable.”
Greg: Yeah, well I remember the first year for me was really fun. I was like, “Man, I’m just going to do this forever.” Because I was somewhat functioning. I was going to a job. I was like, “I can just go to a job, get my heroin, I’ll just live my life this way.”
Greg: But after about a year or so, I started running through money. Things started falling apart more. At that time, I probably realized it, but I didn’t want to realize it, so I continued with the same mindset.
Greg: “I’ll just keep doing this. I’ll be alright. I’ll be alright.”
Greg: Then, I think after about two or three years, in that range, you got caught using. You wanted to quit, and I kind of wanted to, but not enough. And you quit, and I continued using.
Matt: Yeah. Yeah, and then we went our separate ways at that point. Which is, you know, Greg and I basically cut off contact from each other for a few years there, and we figured our way down this path.
When Did You Start Using Methadone?
Matt: So, when did methadone come into the picture?
Greg: Yeah, so when you quit, I continued with our … Another friend that we were using with. I continued using for another six months to a year, I would say. And definitely wasn’t as fun. That you were a really good friend and you were gone, and again, the money was there … It wasn’t there as much anymore. I started running out of money more, which meant I was withdrawaling more.
Greg: I was started to get more and more disconnected.
Greg: So, about six months to a year later, it was like, “Alright, I need to make a change. I need to try something.” I tried suboxone a few times. For me, it didn’t work because it was just never … I never found the right doctor. I never had the right mindset. Never approached it the right way.
Greg: So after a few times of trying suboxone, I said, “Alright, well let me get on methadone. Probably be on it forever, but I’m going to just get on it.”
Matt: What was that experience like? You go to the clinic. What’s the intake process like?
Greg: Yeah, so I went into the clinic and you got to pee in a cup and I believe you have to test … At the clinic I went to, you have to test positive for heroin for them to … Or at least opiates, for them to put you on.
Greg: So I had to test. I tested positive, and they started me at 30 milligrams, I believe it was.
Matt: Is that a low dose, a high dose?
Greg: It’s a pretty low dose. They increased it by five milligrams each … Depending on how you need it. So I’d go in, I’d be like, “Alright, I need five milligrams more.” I’d go in, “I need more.” You know? “I’m still not feeling good.” “I need more.”
Greg: Even though I felt okay at the 30 milligrams, at that point my addiction mindset wasn’t gone. I was still trying to get messed up on it. I was like, “Well, I’m not on heroin. Maybe I can just take my methadone, go home, feel good for a couple hours, and then continue my day.”
What Does Methadone Feel Like?
Matt: Do you get high off methadone?
Greg: When you first start taking it, you’ll kind of get a body high sometimes, but not really. Over the course of a week, I barely felt it. And I kept trying to go up to feel it, and it just wouldn’t work.
Matt: I’ve never taken methadone, so maybe a lot of people have this question out there if they’re considering getting on a methadone maintenance program. When they start, would there be any benefit to them really jumping their dose up or would you suggest to try to stay low dose?
Greg: If you’re feeling okay, stay at a low dose. Big mistake I made, because then you just have more in your system. It’s a longer taper to get off it. You’re just doing yourself a big disservice because if you feel fine at a lower dose, the higher dose you’re going to get used to, and you’re going to feel the same exact way.
Greg: I pretty much felt the same as I did around 50 as I did on 105, which is where I maxed out.
Matt: Okay, so that’s a good point. Because I think that’s what I would think, too. Is to take more and more and more, and I’d feel better, and that doesn’t seem to be the case.
Greg: Like I just, you know, a little bit high each day, and you know, I’m on methadone. I’m not on heroin, so I kind of justified it.
Matt: That’s a big takeaway. So, you started your methadone program. Did the heroin use stop? Were you still messing around?
Greg: Yeah, so the first six months to a year, I would try it every now and then. Like, I would try to get it, because I’d be like, “Alright, I’m just going to get high a little bit.” And it would never work.
Greg: The methadone … I don’t know if it’s a blocker. I don’t know the exact terminology. I don’t think it’s a blocker, but it does somewhere where you don’t feel the heroin. So I would have to do a whole lot to feel a very little. It just wasn’t worth it.
Greg: So I tried that a few times. Maybe 5-10 times throughout six months to a year, and then finally I just … I stopped.
Matt: Does the clinic you were going to, do they continue to drug test you?
Greg: Yeah, they do.
Matt: And you were not concerned about that really, or was it …
Greg: You get some chances with the clinic I was on. If they caught you, they wouldn’t necessarily kick you off, but if you keep getting caught, they’ll kick you off. Especially for stuff like Xanax and benzo’s. It’s a very lethal combination.
Greg: If you get caught tested for that I think like one time, and they’ll boot you. I believe.
Matt: Okay. I see.
Greg: But I never got caught, which means the more clean test you have, the more take homes you can have. So, you start like, one take home a week. Two take homes a week. Three take homes a week. And by the end, I was getting a week worth of take homes.
Greg: So, I only had to go once a week.
Matt: Oh, okay. Alright. So you’re kind of … It’s like, a trust building system, almost.
Matt: Alright, so at that point, six months after you’re into this maintenance program with methadone, you cut out the heroin use –
Greg: Sorry to stop you, but a big point that worked for you was I had to get rid of my other good friend, who was using. So I cut contact with him, and that’s where the use stopped. Because he was still using. He was on methadone too, but he was still using, which means I would still use here and there.
Greg: But as soon as I disconnected that, the use stopped.
One Of The First Steps To Getting Off Heroin…
Matt: I’m glad you brought that up. This is probably … Over the course of our videos, the more we talk about what’s been important for us getting away from heroin, it’s getting rid of the people that you’re doing it with.
Greg: Have to, and unfortunately, it’s always going to be the people that are closest to you at the time, because the people that you use to, are the people you’re closest to at the time. So it’s really hard for everyone.
Matt: Yeah, not an easy decision to make, by any means. But an important one.
Matt: But, now, you cut that stuff out. You’re on the maintenance program. Do you still have the mindset of like, “Yeah, I’m going to be doing this for the rest of my life.”
Greg: Yeah, for a while. I was just kind of on it. I was like, “I’m just going to take my methadone there. I’m going to take it every day.” But eventually I got … I didn’t like the weight of it. Okay?
Greg: So for example, one time I went on a trip, and I got on a plane, and I had my bottles with me, my week take homes. And I guess two fell out of my pocket in the car. So, I went on the trip and … Or, one fell out. One or two, I forget.
Greg: And so I get there, and I realize that I don’t have my bottles, so I’m like, “Oh, my god. Like, oh my god.” And you guys all know that feeling, I’m sure. Whether you can’t get heroin or you can’t get your maintenance drug, and –
Matt: That’s a bad feeling.
Greg: There you’re probably going to be experiencing withdrawal, and the whole time I’m freaking out. It ruined my trip.
Greg: So I get back, and I see them in my car. I’m like, “Thank God.” But that was kind of a moment where like, man, I don’t want to depend on this shit for the rest of my life. I don’t want to have to worry about if I can’t get my dose or if I wake up late.
Greg: That was another concern. If I didn’t set my alarm. You had to be at the clinic by 12. What if I missed? What if I didn’t get it for that day? Every day, that was on my mind. And I see people writing in, they’re like, “I’ve been on methadone or suboxone for 10 years and I’m happy and I’m healthy,” I’m like, that’s fine. If you want to stay on it like that.
Greg: But I don’t want something weighing me down like that. It just feels so good to not have anything weigh … Like, I feel good. And I don’t need to go and get a dose to feel good.
Matt: Yeah, I agree 100%. We actually had a comment from one of our long-term or long-time followers, and she was saying that she’s getting … You know, some of the things we told … We’ve been saying to put in place. Diet, exercise, things like that.
Matt: She said, “I’m finally starting to notice a difference.” And I don’t think at first … It’s not as immediate as obviously heroin or any opiates or methadone or suboxone, but they do work. And it’s something that nobody can ever take away from you, and you just have it, and you don’t have to rely on a doctor or a friend or some plug to get what you need to feel just baseline normal.
There Is No Quick Fix For Addiction Or Struggle…
Greg: And here’s the thing. As addicts, as heroin addicts, we’re all programmed … We want that quick fix. We want that easy fix, right? Like, “Oh, I just want to be able to take some medicine and feel okay.” “I just want to be able to do this and feel okay.”
Greg: It fucking takes work.
Greg: You got to learn that it takes work. And I had to work to get off the methadone. I had to work to build myself up. I had to get up out of bed to go to the gym when I didn’t want to. I had to go through minor withdrawal, a little bit of anxiety. I had to push through that.
Greg: So, I think we’re so used to just wanting that easy fix. You got to get that out of your mindset. You got to realize that you need to start working for things.
Greg: Everything worth it in life, you got to work for it.
Matt: Absolutely. Well, let’s get back to that, then. So, you start to realize that you don’t want the weight or the anxiety of that needing something comes with. Methadone, in particular. What did you do? Did you talk to a counselor or how did the process of tapering begin?
Greg: Yeah, I just remember pretty clearly, I sat with it for a while. Right? I was like, I knew at that point that I didn’t want the weight of it, but it wasn’t enough yet. That wasn’t a big enough reason yet for me to start coming down. I was still too scared.
Greg: Then, I met my girlfriend at the time. Ended up getting her pregnant, and that’s where I was like, bam. That was my big, “Okay, it’s time.” It’s time to make the jump.
Greg: The weight of it started it, got it in motion. I didn’t take action. But then when I found out my son was on the way, it was like, bam. Time to take action.
Matt: Yeah, that’s a big one. One of our recent videos we were saying ultra strong reason. And that is a big one, right there. Any major life change like that.
Matt: You know, and a lot of people I think experience them. Use that. If that stuff comes into your life, use it as a catalyst. Good or bad. Let that be your momentum to move forward with this thing.
Matt: So, the taper method starts. What was it like? Were you nervous? Were you, you know …
Greg: I think I was a little. I don’t remember. It was about seven or eight years ago now. So I don’t remember if I was nervous at the time. I don’t think I was too nervous initially, because I was … The plan was to come down slow.
Greg: So, I’ll put a link to my video below, my methadone taper. But to sum it up, I came down a milligram a week. You know, off 105. So it took me two years to taper.
Greg: So I knew when I put the plan in place, I got two years. I’m just going to take it a little bit at a time. Just going go down one milligram a week, and I got a while. I’m just going to focus on getting through each day and that’s kind of where I started.
Greg: Yeah, it wasn’t worrying about two years from now. I was just kind of worrying about, alright, just going to go down little by little. I’ll be alright.
Matt: I think that’s a really smart way to approach that whole thing. Because, and I’m sure you felt this too, whenever you make your mind up and you’re like, “Alright, I want to get off of this,” or, “I want to start this,” or whatever it is. Whether it’s getting off a maintenance program or starting a business. You want to be at the finish line right there.
Greg: There was that urge to just come down really quick, but I thought about it a while, and I knew my best chance was taking it slow.
Matt: Yeah, slow and steady. So, one milligram a week. You said you peaked at 105, that’s where that started. Did your counselor offer any advice? Did she think that was a good plan, or he?
Greg: I think it came up with all the plan, honestly. Counseling, for me, honestly I’m a little different. My personality’s a little weird. But I would just kind of go in there and bullshit. Like, counseling did nothing for me. I think counseling does a lot for other people, but my … I think I had to do it monthly. I think I would dread them. Like, they didn’t help. I knew what I wanted. I had my plan in place. And counseling just didn’t do much for me, personally.
Matt: Well, this is another thing that we talk a lot about. I mention a lot of times in the comment section, people let us know what they’re doing with their taper or how their taper’s going, and I always say you have to go based off of your instincts. And you have to make sure your instincts are not saying, “Hey, you should go get some heroin.” Those aren’t your good instincts.
Matt: You need to know truly what is best for you, and if you can get in touch with that voice, I think that’s your best bet.
Matt: A lot of these counselors don’t know you and your particular circumstances and situations. You got to stick to your guns sometimes and do what’s best for you.
Greg: Again, everyone’s recovery is their own recovery. I think there’s people where they need counseling. Counseling’s going to be great for them, right?
Greg: For me, I was so set in my ways. My mind was so set that I just didn’t need it.
Moving Further Away From Heroin Addiction…
Matt: Yeah, yeah. I agree. Alright, so you’re tapering down. You get a year in. What else was going on in your life? Did you … We talk about healthy habits. Changing social circumstances, things like that.
Greg: Yeah, so immediately … Now I have it a little backwards. But I immediately … Like, I used to be success … In 2006, I was pretty successful with internet marketing, online business where I made a couple hundred grand.
Greg: I was doing very well. And then I got to the drugs, went through all the money. Had to go back to work. So immediately, the other thing I did was I started looking back into internet marketing, and I started building my business.
Greg: If I had to do it over, I probably would have focused on health first, but it all worked out obviously. But the big thing was I had something to work towards, so time really flew by. It was like, I wasn’t really thinking about coming down.
Greg: Since I was coming down so slow, I didn’t even notice it. I didn’t really notice it until I got down to like, 20ish, where I’m like, “Oh shit, I’m starting to get pretty low here.”
Matt: Yeah. Yeah, well that’s a big part of when we say put healthy habits in place, or set goals for yourself. A lot of it is just to take your mind off of focusing 100% on like, “Oh my God, I’m tapering down. Do I feel okay? I think I feel okay, but I’m not sure. I might be a little anxious.”
Matt: If you have a goal that you’re set on or a new daily habit or a business you’re building, whatever it is. It will really take the focus off of –
Greg: You know what, that’s a great point because one of the big things is getting rid of the vices. Right? For example, you could say social media. We use that as an example. If you get rid of social media, for a lot of people, that’s two, three, four hours a day, right? It’s ridiculous.
Greg: But the problem is, if you don’t fill that vice with something else than you’re sitting around for two, three, four hours a day with nothing to do –
Matt: Just thinking about it.
Greg: Just thinking.
Greg: So, you got to get rid of the vice then you got to replace it with something positive.
Matt: Yeah, I agree 100%. We get a lot of kick back on the replacing thing. But to your point, I can at least, for me, for you, and we did this completely separately, having that other thing to focus on was really helpful to get over those major humps, I think.
Matt: So, let’s say last quarter. Last four months of your taper. What’s going on there?
Getting To The End Of The Methadone Addiction…
Greg: So I remember when I got down to 20, I had to pause for some reason for a couple months. It was by accident. And I came down again a milligram a week until I hit 10, and then I did a milligram every two weeks once I hit 10.
Greg: Again, full timeline’s on my methadone video.
Greg: I started feeling it I think around seven milligrams. I started feeling the withdrawal a little bit. It was never horrible. It was mostly anxiety, problems sleeping.
Greg: But I never got the first withdrawal. So it was manageable. And at the same time I hit that, the 10 milligram, Matt contacted me. He said, “Hey, I hear you’re doing good. I just opened up a gym. Why don’t you come in?”
Greg: He knew I hadn’t been working out and that’s kind of where we re-connected, and I started getting my health in order at that point, around the 10 milligram mark. 20 weeks out.
Matt: Health started kicking in. How did you feel getting back into … Because you were always super athletic. Played sports. What do you think that benefit was?
Greg: Well, first of all I had to swallow my pride, right? Now when I came in, it was just a few guys. It was like Matt … When Matt was first starting the gym, and I would come in there, they were like animals. They had all these big plates on there, and I go and I can’t even do a pull-up anymore.
Greg: I remember Matt set up the first work out for me, and I had to do pull-ups with bands. And for me, I’m used to being one of the strongest people. I lifted since I was 12.
Greg: Then when heroin and opiates hit, it just took me out.
Greg: So I had to swallow my pride. I went in there, I was the weakest one, which is total opposite of what I was used to. And I had to swallow my pride. It was hard to get up and go because I didn’t really feel good, so I had to push myself there. Then when I got there, I had to swallow my pride.
Matt: Yeah, that’s not an easy thing to do. You put your ego aside and you knew what was going to be best for you, and now you’re just right back up top with … And that’s how it works for everybody. Believe me. If you’re at this part or at this point in your recovery and you’re starting to look at like, “Maybe I should start working out or I should start yoga or I should start this class or that class,” doesn’t even have to be exercise-related.
Matt: You have to understand that it’s going to be hard at first. You’re not going to be good at it. Nobody’s good at anything they just start.
Greg: Literally, every morning … Like, every night, especially when I got down to zero, I would sleep maybe a half hour a night. If that. Some nights no sleep at all, and my alarm would go off just in case I was sleeping, at like 4:30, to get to the gym by 5:00, and I’d be like, “Ugh. I do not want to get up.”
Greg: But I would just get out of bed. And I would just get dressed, and I would just go. Without even thinking, I would just go. And I would get there, I would get through it and I would feel a little better each day.
Greg: And by that point, I had momentum built. I had got back into positive people. I had positive people around me. My business was starting to take off. I put a lot of effort into that. Now I was starting to turn my health around.
Greg: So I started building that momentum. You know what I mean?
Greg: And we did a video recently on things you have to do before you start tapering. These are all things that I did. I started getting that momentum building.
Matt: Yeah, it’s big. Because then, you know, let’s talk about when you’re coming off. You’re at seven milligrams. So it’s a couple weeks later, you’re working your way out of this thing. You have a whole lot of good stuff to rely on, on the other side.
Greg: Definitely, yeah.
Matt: So how did that play out?
Greg: Yeah, so I remember coming down, each … You know, it was nerve-wracking. I remember I got on a forum, and I made a post, and I was looking for other people who were in the same situation. Especially when I got down to like two, one.
Greg: Like, man, I’m about to be off completely. Should I expect a hurricane? I was expecting to just get hit, all of a sudden, with full withdrawal. And it never happened. It just never happened.
Greg: Just minor stuff. Like, stuff I’m like, “I can deal with this. I can do this.” You know what I mean?
Matt: Yeah. I think that’s a point where a lot of people are at right now, is they’re maybe thinking about tapering or they’re starting their taper, or they’re working their way down. And you get down to those low numbers, and you’re like, “Shit. What’s on the other side of this?”
Greg: Because again, we’re so used to having something that we think is making us feel the way that we do, you know what I mean? Or making us feel normal. And you got to just pony up and get used to just putting in the work.
Greg: Again, that’s what I was starting to do. I was starting to put in the work. Then again, when I was jumping off, I had … Even though it was a very small dose, it was like, “Oh my God. I don’t have my crutch, anymore.”
Greg: But it wasn’t that bad.
Matt: Yeah. I remember when I finally got off. I remember clearly my last dose of suboxone. I remember the next day and I’m like, “Alright. I guess I’m good.” And sometimes it’s just going into it and seeing what happens.
Greg: And that was like dust for you, right? Like, you had dusted the bottom of a bottle?
Matt: Yeah. Like, nothing. But just that next day when there’s no bottle, there’s no anything, I think you almost get this sigh of relief. You expect there to be pain and anxiety and getting sick and withdrawal, but it’s actually a pretty good feeling.
Greg: Yeah. What’s cool is like, things got better so quick. Since I had already had all those things in place, like I had positive people around me, got rid of all the negative people. I had started building my business, building my health. Things got good very quick.
Greg: I believe two weeks after I jumped off, I was feeling somewhat normal.
Greg: I had problems with sleep for a while, but I was like, “Whatever.” I can deal with that. I’m feeling normal. I don’t have a crutch anymore. I am working my way towards where I want to be, which is where I am today.
Greg: And just each day I just felt better and better and better.
Matt: And that’s just … That goes to show you all the things that Greg did to put his frame of mind in a better place. So, instead of being concerned about like, “Oh my God, I didn’t sleep at all last night,” he was kind of looking at the positive things and being like, “Damn, I’m doing well here. Business is doing better. Doing better in the gym. My health’s improving.”
Greg: I could be fucking shitting myself, throwing up, restless leg. You know what I mean? There’s a lot of stuff I wasn’t experiencing that I could have been.
Matt: Yeah, and I think a lot of that may be just that Greg had more of a focus on the positive things going on in his life than the negative things, which is huge.
Greg: Yeah. But I think a big mistake people make is they try to jump off with no plan, or they try to jump off, they still have negative people around, they still have people that are using. They don’t have anything positive as a replacement in place, and then it just falls apart.
Matt: Yeah, so just to rewind a little bit, I think the biggest move that Greg made was getting away from other people that were using. I mean, that’s –
Greg: That’s what started for me and you.
Matt: Yeah. That’s step one for both of us. And it’s probably the place where people get hung up the most.
Greg: It’s hard.
Matt: Yeah, it’s hard to do. But it’s the biggest shift that you can possibly do. At least to get the ball rolling.
Greg: Because that’s not … It’s like, not an option anymore. If you’re with someone who’s using and they’re a very good friend, then that option is always there. If there’s any little struggle you go through, you can be like, “Hey, just today.”
Greg: You can lie to yourself.
Matt: Stress. A moment of weakness. Whatever. It’s just, it allows that option to be there.
Greg: Yeah. Definitely.
Matt: And it shouldn’t be.
Matt: Cool. Anything else to add?
Greg: No. Just make sure you guys have that plan in place. Think about this before you get going. Don’t just be like, “Alright, I’m going to quit.” You got to get those steps in order. And I’ll put links to videos below.
Greg: I think we just did a video on five steps you need to do before you taper. I think I’m going to put that video below, as well. A link to that. Because it’s extremely important to get these things in place, then start your process.
Matt: Yeah guys, don’t sleep on those things. Again, we talk about all that stuff. Diet, exercise. And I know a lot of people are like, “Yeah, whatever.” That stuff changes the way that your brain works. The way that your body produces those feel-good hormones. Serotonin, dopamine, endorphins.
Matt: You need that stuff. Those are all tools that you can use to help you start the taper method or finish the taper method. And I’ll help you as you go on forward from that point.
Greg: Yeah, but very possible. We both did it. We’re just trying to set our … Like, we just went back through our addiction, figured out what did we do that worked? What did we do that not worked? And that’s what we’re trying to share.
Greg: This is what we did that worked. If we had to do it all over again, this is how we would do it.
Greg: I didn’t necessarily do it in the order. I didn’t do it to the max capacity. If I did, I would have quit a lot earlier. And I think a lot easier. And we’re trying to make it easier for people to quit.
Greg: You can do it, just try to follow these steps. We’re speaking from experience here.
Matt: Well, thanks for watching guys. Do us a favor, share this video with anybody that you think might be thinking about tapering off of methadone or suboxone, or they’re going through the struggle at any point in their addiction or recovery.
Matt: Hopefully it can help somebody out there, and that’s what Project Unbroken is all about. So like, share, subscribe. Leave us a comment if you guys have anything that you want us to talk about, or if you have any questions or comments.
Matt: But thanks for watching, and we’ll see you next time.